The father of a dead Marine has to pay the legal fees incurred by Westboro Church, Kansas’ egregious bunch of haters who picket military funerals with horrible signs.
The family is taking donations, if you’re so moved. Fortunately, the Supreme Court will hear this case. The All-Girl Prayer and Meditation Circle will hold them — the family and the Supremes – in the light.
Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, died at age 20 on March 3, 2006, in Al Anbar province, Iraq.
And thanks, Bro. Jay, for the link.
UPDATE: Fox News show host Bill O’Reilly says he’ll pay the $16,500 to the Westboro group.
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“Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps.”
I wish there were details about what this judgment was for and why. It’s just boggling.
I rather quickly went looking for the court documents but didn’t find them at Buttcrack:30 when I posted that. Will look again later.
I hope that the Southern Poverty Law Center or a similar agency goes to bat for them.
I’m glad the Supreme Court will hear it. Wait, no I’m not. Wait, what is the Supreme Court again? Whose side are they on? I used to be glad when they’d decide something, because I was pretty sure they’d decide on the right side. We’ll see. I should change my name to Skeptical Seamstress.
…and then you can sit by me. Are you also Sewing Susan, or is that simply a great choice of artwork (old hand-needle package)?
That right there is a fabulous piece of nostalgic art that my blog partner found at a garage sale. It’s the actual needle book, and I scanned its cover into iPhoto. We’re working with a graphic artist now to “modernize” it in some humorous ways.
“It’s the actual needle book, ”
Yup, I have actually owned one or two of those, and it was nice to have the acknowledgment of my skills! :-)
You’re a seamstress!? Let’s definitely sit together!
YET ANOTHER FRIENDSHIP BROUGHT TO YOU BY THIS WEBSITE YOU’RE WELCOME NOW SEND MONEY.
Sorry to shout. I’m excited, that’s all. Keep your money.
Holding that family in my heart. Westboro “Church” not so much.
We here at the All-Girl Prayer and Meditation Circle are holding the Westboro folks significantly lower than our hearts.
Unbelievable is right.
Your right to public free speech & protest stops where my right to privacy starts.
Gaming the Supreme Court, what do you think they will say?
By which narrow definition do we call those Westboro Wackos a “Church?”
Can’t we just call them by what they really are, a small group of extreme haters?
They call themselves a church. And they even call themselves a Baptist church, even though I doubt that they are affiliated with any of the 100 or so Baptist denominations.
Nope. The Baptists won’t have them.
Anyone can set up a group and call it a Baptist church.
On the other hand, the Episcopal Church went to court to prohibit breakaway congregations from using the word “Episcopal.” They were successful. That’s why you’ll see “Anglican Church” signs here and there. They’re the breakaways.
The Diocese of Pittsburgh had to sue a breakaway “Diocese of Pittsburgh” to prevent it from using that name, and from taking its assets.
Baptists don’t have the hierarchy to deal with this kind of thing, I think. I did not know that “Anglican” signaled a breakway.
Code word. Episcopalians are Anglicans, but some Anglicans may not be Episcopalians.
Good to know. Here’s a code word for you: Fundamentalists are evangelicals, but not all evangelicals are fundamentalists.
To clarify: The Episcopal Church (properly, “The Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society of the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America) traces its roots to the Church of England.
Thus, “Anglican.”
And the Church of England, of course, traces its roots back even further. My seminary professor said that the Anglican Communion probably has a better claim to apostolic succession than the RC, as it spread from England, which is an island and couldn’t lose records as easily as Rome could, and did.
I thought the whole Church of England thing was due to Henry VIII wanting to divorce Katherine?
It’s a wee bit more complicated than Henry VIII wanting a divorce.
At first, Henry was a big supporter of the Pope and wrote a public letter saying so. We have to remember that the Holy Roman Empire stretched far and wide, and there was an inconvenient body of water between England and the Continent.
So, the Church in England was always relatively independent. No one knows exactly how Christianity arrived on British soil, but it was already there when the Pope sent missionaries. Surprise, surprise!
The Synod of Whitby in 664 decided that services would follow the Roman rather than the Celtic practices, and the Church came under the influence and ultimately the control of Rome.
Fast-forward to Henry. His ego was enormous and he didn’t like someone else telling him what he could or could not do. So when he tangled with the Pope about his divorce and about finances, he got Parliament to “nationalize” the churches and to declare the King to be “defender of the faith.” (The Pope had previously given Henry exactly that title.)
The bishops and archbishops thus came into the control of the monarchy, and the hierarchal structure became the Church OF England.
What could the Pope do? Henry had his armies, and the Pope his little Swiss Guards. No contest.
To this day, the monarch is “Defender of the Faith,” and she appoints the bishops. I was in England about 15 years ago, when a young priest was formally instituted into an appointment. I was gobsmacked that the service included a promise to be loyal to the Queen.
The Swiss Guards have the prettiest uniforms. They win.
See, we here at the One True Church say we can trace our roots all the way back to Jesus. I don’t actually have documentation on that, but I say it, anyway.
That’s an interesting question. Their proper name includes the word “church,” but…
Kenneth and Cheryl Upchurch own Capitol Book & News a few blocks from my home, but that doesn’t make them a church. Or an uppity church. (We’ve got uppity churches around here, though.)
http://www.capitolbook.com/
I’ve heard that the Phelps’ like to push things as far as they possibly can in order to elicit a response at which time they sue. It’s disgusting.
“I’ve heard that the Phelps’ like to push things as far as they possibly can in order to elicit a response at which time they sue. It’s disgusting.”
And do they actually win those suits? If so, is THAT how they finance themselves?
Well, they push people into doing stupid things like vandalism. I suppose it only takes someone trashing a sign to be sued. The way I hear it, they do win and that is exactly how they fund their operation.
Yes, and yes.
So much for morality.
Here’s the deal: Father of dead Marine sued Westboro Church and Phelps for picketing funeral — something that the church has been doing for a long time.
Father wins civil case. Church appeals and wins appeal. Appeals court orders father to pay legal costs.
My own thought? However odious I might find the church, I think they have a first amendment right to protest and picket within legal bounds, which are not the same as the bounds of decency.
We agree, that they have every right to protest and picket within legal bounds — and this group is very careful to know those bounds. And the law’s pretty clear on appeals, etc. I don’t find it a bad thing to go ahead and contribute to the family’s legal fund, as taking something all the way to the Supreme Court isn’t cheap.
Perhaps it will be necessary for churches and cemeteries to post notices, saying that protests are not permitted on the property.
(Some cemeteries, like Lincoln in suburban DC, are absolutely huge, and protestors would be far away from the actual burial site.)
Are some cemeteries public property?
I suppose that some cemeteries are owned by municipalities. And, of course, there are the military cemeteries such as Arlington.
Most cemeteries are owned by “Cemetery Associations” which charge for burials and such.
And many, especially older ones, belong to churches and thus are “private.”
We do, too, but as I said, the documentation is fuzzy.
My take on it is when Peter preached to the multitudes on the Day of Pentecost, and 3,000 were added to the church that very same day, the computers were overwhelmed and some important data was lost.
But somewhere, one of the Elect wrote down “church of Christ,” small c.
This is a section of Ann Coulter’s essay from today. There should be a very special place in hell for Fred Phelps. Not the biggest Bill O’Reily fan in the world, but it was a very nice gesture on his part to pick up Snyder’s legal fees.
GOD HATES JUDGES
April 7, 2010
In an opinion that may have been written by Heidi Montag, a federal court of appeals recently threw out a jury verdict in favor of a father, Albert Snyder, who had sued protesters at his son Matthew’s funeral for intentional infliction of emotional distress.
Solely because Matthew was a Marine, a Kansas-based cult, consisting mostly of members of a single family, traveled to Maryland in order to stand outside Matthew’s funeral with placards saying things like, “God Loves Dead Soldiers,” “God Hates You,” “You’re Going to Hell,” “Semper Fi Fags,” “Thank God for Dead Soldiers,” “Thank God for IEDs” and “God Hates Fags.”
But wait, it gets funnier.
The cult’s leader/father is Fred Phelps, who calls America a “sodomite nation of flag-worshipping idolaters.” Since you won’t read it anyplace else, Phelps has run for public office five times — as a Democrat.
Is her point that he ran as a Democrat? Because any one can register and run for any party. I can assure you that as a Democrat, I was in agreement right up to “it gets funnier.” Too bad.
He can run, but he can’t hide–or win.
We had a similar situation in Alabama. In the 2008 race, a KKK type announced that he was running for some office, as a Dem.
The state Democratic Party was highly embarrassed and attempted to disavow him. But they didn’t have the rules in place to kick him off their party’s slate, so he did run as a Dem.
Deo gratias, he didn’t win.
“Phelps has run for public office five times — as a Democrat.”
Yeah. Well, I can call myself a black man, too, but I’m not one. I would be very sad if he’d gotten backing from the Democratic Party.
Wow Cynical…
Mr. Phelps was able to win 31% of vote in a Democrat primary 31. Freaking. Percent! He also helped Al Gore! I am certainly happy that Phelps didn’t run as a Republican, or help any Republican candidates! This is from Wikipedia:
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15 percent of the vote in 1998.[57] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31 percent of the vote.[58] Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993[59] and 1997.[60]
Support for Al Gore
Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 Democratic Party primary election.[61] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a “gay bill of rights” and stated that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.[62] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[63] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps’ son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser at his home in Topeka and was a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[15] Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment, saying “We are not dignifying those stories with a response.”[64]
Wow Todd
I said I would be very sad, and I AM very sad that Phelps got 31 % of the vote in a Democratic primary. That’s embarrassing, probably as embarrassing as the behavior of the wilder part of the Tea Partiers is to real conservatives. It’s hard to imagine how his supporters would in any way consider themselves Democrats.
Um, seriously? Didn’t you scold others here for using Wikipedia? Surprise! Double-standard!
I’m not saying it’s not true of course. But we all know (even you I suspect) that Phelps is no more a Democrat than DJ is a fundamentalist.
Wait a sec-ond. I am a fundamentalist. I thought I already established that. I look like one. I quack like one. And I’m so far to the left I scare me. Why? Because I read the text, that’s why.
You look nothing like a fundie. Keep trying, Sister.
We’ve already gone over this. I think, therefore I am.
You don’t look like a fundy. In that photo of you giving the commencement address at Hartford Seminary Foundation, your dress is not ankle or floor length.
And the content of that speech, which you printed, is non-fundy. You do not quack like a fundamentalist, for sure.
And fundies use the word “left” only to describe those unfortunate not-to-be-raptured ones.
Sorry about that.
Jay,
Do you have a death wish tonight?
Evidently, Bro. Jay likes to live dangerously.
I’ve locked the doors tonight and know how to dial 911.
Plus, Maxwell-Gunter Air Force Base is nearby and they can shoot down any old flying brooms.
Sez you.
Jay,
Don’t worry about Susan…she still doesn’t have her wings…Cynical on the other hand, is a broom TOP-GUN!
Bite down on it, Todd. Both sets. Cynical has nothing to do with this.
I am fixing to climb onto my broom and come swat you one. I’m being accused of being a make-believe Christian these days, so I’m clinging to the old rugged cross. (Everybody oughta have someone like Vegas in their corner, when the hounds come calling. Just sayin’.)
Save the gas, Cynical has plenty of brooms all gassed up, and ready to go.
Pull your fangs back in there, fella. I have my own set of brooms.
Fangs!?
I have an elephant collection…no fangs, but plenty of tusks!
You know those are only good luck (your political party’s symbol notwithstanding) if the trunk’s up? My son collects ‘em, too.
The only type I buy…but thanks for the knowledge!
I didn’t want you condemning yourself to years and years of bad luck.
I’m having tons of fun on your other blog. :)
It’s all the things I wish I could say to people I know and love.
Well, have at it. I don’t believe the feeder fish (people I like to think of as “my followers”) know what to do with someone who makes cogent arguments. I don’t wade in there because I feel like I’ve already had my say, but some of that stuff is stupid-on-a-stick.
There’s ANOTHER blog to have this much fun on? Where?! Point me the way.
Courant.com
Fear, Itself. See you there!
Yes, but with the caveat that the people who comment there aren’t always pleasant.
Nah, it’s mostly just stuff I steal from here, and some local stuff. The comment section is far more barbed and — let’s just say it — ignorant. People who might have something worthwhile to say will email me to say they’re just not interested in wading in with the feeder fish, “my followers.” I sound like I’m whining. I’m a newspaper columnist in my day job, and I write pretty much the way I write here, but the audience is far, far different. I like it here better.
OK, yeah, I lasted 10 minutes over there. I hate ignorant comments by ignorant hate mongers. Maybe I’ll just learn to “love the articles and hate the readers” — sorry, I’m having trouble letting that go…. I think “love the [blank], hate the [blank] is my new slogan.
Yeah, it’s a mixed bag, “my followers.” And I don’t always love ‘em.
31% of the Democrat party must have liked him enough to think so-That’s. All. I am. Saying! :)
Vegas, go easy on the whole Susan/fundamental thing…each time Jay brings it up-Susan gives him a time out. Good catch on the Wikipedia-yes I did call Cynical out on that source…but only for academic papers…not blog sites-what can I say, I was in a hurry and took the easy way out. Mea culpa.
“…but only for academic papers…”
At risk of being attacked for no reason again, I believe it was an article about the usage of the term “Tea Bagger.” Not very academic.
I only use that vulgar term when my Tourette’s syndrome is kicking in…or when I am drinking.
Again: Any one can pick a party. Should I start listing certain Southern Wingnuts who are Republicans? I don’t hold you responsible for them.