It’s terrorism

CHyWfodUEAA3xVACall it what you will, but the shooting at the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina, was an act of terrorism.

A shooter — Dylann Roof, 21, of South Carolina — has been taken into custody. The shooter shot the pastor and eight members of the Mother Emanuel AME Church during Wednesday night’s Bible study and prayer meeting. An unknown number of people were wounded, as well.

Here’s the FBI’s definition of terrorism. The shooter was supposed to have said:

You rape our women and you’re taking over our country and you have to go.

Here’s more on the pastor, Clementa Pinckney, who was also a state senator. That’s his desk at the state Senate chambers. Prayers to the family and the community. This is just so sad.

 

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29 Comments

  1. “You rape our women?” I wonder if this guy has ever read anything about slavery in “Our Country.”

    Without going into the cynic vs skeptic discussion, I think this is the kind of thing that makes me Cynical. The various Good Deeds done by this one and that one are wonderful but cannot offset this kind of horror.

  2. Domestic terrorist. N. He may be a terrorist, but he’s /our/ terrorist.

    But to the corporate media, he is yet another disturbed individual, and the fact that he’s a white Christian male has no bearing on his actions at all.

  3. Very tragic! My heart goes out to the families and congregation. I have not read much on this yet. Is the assumption this young man hated these people because of their religion or their race? Is that clear? Do you think the public response would be similar either way?

    This is so sad and it is yet another example of what can happen when any person can gain access to a gun. Maybe someday there will be smart-guns that won’t kill people, or will shut down, or something. It’s a dangerous combination: angry, violent people and guns.

      1. I just read this: “A law enforcement official says witnesses told authorities the gunman stood up and said he was there “to shoot black people.”
        That is not the voice of simply a mentally ill, confused person. That is the voice of a hate-filled, evil, evil man! Hopefully, media outrage is louder than media white-washing. How do we stop evil like this? How do we stop hate? Here’s some info on hate crimes. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2013/topic-pages/offenders/offenders_final

        In addition, when will we ever address the male violence problem? According to the FBI, approximately 90% of all homicide offenders are male. Something must be done about that.

  4. And now there’s been a bomb-threat at a church where a vigil for the murder-victims was being held.

      1. Wish I shared your optimism. To me it feels like a demand that we all talk about this violence in the same way, whether we honestly disagree or not.

        1. I don’t know where our disagreement lies. The church shooting is heinous. This stuff happens all. The. Time. We read the stories, feel a little sad (or a lot, depending) and then we go about our business doing business as usual which isn’t working because then this happens again. And we read the stories. And we feel a little sad (or a lot, depending). If we change the conversation, maybe we can change the behavior.

          1. Oh, I agree that it’s heinous and that same old same old is NOT working. What I worry is that we’re going to want government to “fix it.” I don’t think that’s possible.

            1. I think government has to be a part of the fix, being as they are regulatory body that oversees such crimes. But we agree that this has to be organic, as well. That means changing a lot of behavior, from the ground up. How do you propose to do that? And no, I’m not talking about thought police.

    1. Categorizing…labeling…crime, especially violent crime, is used to determine the extent of the reaction by authority to the crime. The existence of aggravating or mitigating factors determine proportionality, (see 8th Amendment), from arrest through trial and sentencing, and influence policy on proportionality.

      You don’t watch cop shows? Or…you’ve never been arrested.

      Determining whether or not categories like hate crime and terrorism …the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims….actually exacerbate conflicts between groups must to take into account the perceived greater harm to society and individuals caused by such crimes, (proportionality). It’s only reasonable.

      1. Because more “reaction by authority” is just what we need.. Send in the Thought Police. They’ll take care of this in no time.

        1. That’s just plain bullshit, Mike…and you know it. Crimes are categorized for a reason…a very common sense reason…a reason built into our Constitution. Thought police paranoia? Really?

          Why would you want to diminish, in any way, the egregious nature of this crime…a crime so obviously based on racial hatred? What good comes from not calling it what it is? How is justice served by refusing to recognize aggravating factors…like bias motivation…in crime.

          I suspect that if a black man shot and killed a white congregation in a white church we wouldn’t be hearing any talk about labels or “thought police.”

          1. Not diminishing it. Saying I don’t see how calling it this name or that name makes a damn bit of difference in changing anything for the better at the end of the day. Hope I’m proven wrong..

    1. Duggan has some good points. But what does “He is committed to justice and restoration of communities by redeeming wealth in the economy of God” mean?

      1. The economy of God, if memory serves, is the Divine Enterprise of building the Body of Christ….The Church. First uttered by Paul, I believe. Redeeming wealth in the economy of God would be monopolizing material wealth to expand Pastor Duggan’s…or somebody’s…notion of Christianity.

          1. I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

            Think of a corporation:The Body of Christ™. The goal of The Corporation is to grow. Wealth that’s not actively used to build The Corporation is being used to build something else: Not Quite The Corporation. This inhibits the growth of The Corporation. So that wealth must be redeemed…reclaimed.

            Paul likened it to a household, I believe. Money that wasn’t used to build and support The Household diminished The Household.

            An acquaintance explained it to me this way: The Body of Christ is not just a church, not a particular denomination, but all Christians. The “economy of God” seeks to unite all Christians under one common currency, one common faith, (sans all the diversity that has produced tens of thousands of Christian denominations worldwide), one common goal, (expanding a unified Christianity).

  5. In the photos of this terrorist that have been recently released, he is holding the confederate flag in every one I’ve seen. It’s meaning is quite clear. This, the same flag that flies above the SC state capital, is meant to show intent to harm people who are not white. It has been and continues to be the symbol racists have used. It’s too connected to hate to continue on as something that is historic or whatever the hell they say to keep flying the damn thing. There is really no justification for keeping it up on their state’s (or any other state’s) property. Do you think the southern states who fly this hateful symbol will remove it? Would they even take that first step, do you think?

    1. A friend just sent me this: “This morning on Face the Nation, Sherilynn Ifill spoke about Charleston. She was so concise and articulate, she really goes to the heart of the problem. That we as white Americans can not sit back and be silent in the face of racism.”
      http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/june-21-scott-brooks-nunes

      (I can’t get the video to work on my laptop — hopefully when I’m home I can grab it on my desktop.)

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